KIRSTEN: So thank you very much Shadow Minister for your time here talking to us today.

We put out a call to our Every Australian Counts supporters asking them what they most wanted to ask our politicians in the lead up to the federal election.

And I have to tell you that we got sent more than 200 questions.

So you’ll be very pleased to hear that I’m not going to ask them all here today.

But we’ve picked out the ones that were most common.

And were most representative of what people wanted to know.

So they are the questions I’m going to ask you here today.

So I’ll start – and I have to say a lot of people asked this first question but we’ve picked the one from Natasha because it sums up so many:

“Why is everything taking so long?”

“Why am I so far removed from the people making decisions?”

“Why do I have to keep jumping through so many hoops?”

“How would you make the system more responsive and quicker?”

SHADOW MINISTER: Um, thank you to Natasha. As you know, Labor did launch it’s plan
to fix the NDIS and I think most probably people have seen this document.

And when you go through it it does pick up very much the point that Natasha has made.

Things are taking a ridiculous amount of time and it’s absolutely unacceptable.

Not only the plans, but also the reviews.

The two or three things that I’d want to say to that is firstly – we’re going to lift the staffing cap on the NDIA and that will mean there will be about 90,000 additional people employed in the disability space.

And I hope that that will really do a lot in terms of getting some consistency and speed into the planning process.

The next thing I want to make sure is with the planning process,

I think it’s crazy that people don’t get to see their plans before they actually get sent off for assessment.

I reckon if people got to see their plans it would be a lot quicker and a lot less back and forth and reviews.

The other thing we’re going to do is establish a taskforce that will get through all of those reviews and all of those plans that are backlogged and backed up in the system.

And the other thing of course is to make sure that we establish a fund so that any unspent money in the disability space will be quarantined just for disability.

There is not enough consistency, there is not enough in the planning process and the length of time for plans and reviews and the reasons for reviews are just – doesn’t make any sense – so even if people want to change something really small in their plan it’s still got to go through this massive review process.

And that’s something I’m going to make sure we change.

KIRSTEN: That’s great. So our next question is from David –

“How will you make the system more flexible and more person-friendly?”

“It’s very rigid and bureaucratic.”

SHADOW MINISTER: It is unbelievably rigid and bureaucratic.

I’ve mentioned that we’re going to be lifting the staffing cap.

I think the other thing there needs to be is a really big cultural change across the NDIA in particular.

Now that’s – you can’t put a dollar figure on that as you know and it takes time but that cultural change is absolutely crucial to put people with disability and their families back at the centre of decision making.

And to also get this back to an insurance scheme as well. I mean it’s moved way away from that.

And in my view the people in the senior ranks at the NDIA and NDIS actually need to be interfacing a lot more with people with disability.

I want to make sure that people with disability are part of the workforce.

And part of the decision making process at the moment that is not the case and that seems to me to be very, very wrong.

The other point that David’s making and it was a really good question and it was about the principle of investing in people not about – it’s become about the bureaucracy not about the people it should be serving.

And they’re the sort of principles I think we need to put in place to make people with disability back
at the centre of every aspect of the process.

KIRSTEN: Great well we’ve actually got a bit of a follow up question from Ruth and it is “What can you do to make sure there’s more consistency and fairness in the system? At the moment plans seem a bit hit and miss.”

SHADOW MINISTER: Plans do seem hit and miss.

The other point, just from David as well as Ruth’s question, Kirsten is that I see no reason for yearly plans.

I think there should be rolling plans and people with a permanent disability having to go back every 12 months go through the same story, go through the same process really is heavily bureaucratic and I think probably weighs the system down.

So what I’d prefer to see is people getting a 2-3 year plan, and and that really the onus is on the person with disability to say “Oh, look, my circumstances have changed.”

And to advise the NDIA. No the other way around.

So that’s the first thing.

And the other thing is that there just doesn’t seem to be any regulation, or proper training, or any consistency
in those people that are the planners.

And I’m hoping that with the increase in lifting the staffing cap, It will give planners a chance to not just, you know hit the KPIs and go through the planning process – often a tick-a-box exercise – but actually go and meet with the families, sit down and talk to them, really understand what the needs are.

And also, get some training. We’ve been asked, as you’re aware some portable training but get some training and some regulation into those that are doing the plans.

And also take pressure off those that are doing the plans by additional staff so they will actually be able to have the capacity and the development that they’re supposed to in the first place.

KIRSTEN: Well that’s actually a really good lead-in to the next question which is from Dominic. Which is “How will you ensure there’s an adequate understanding of complex needs when assessing NDIS applications
and plans? And how will you make sure those assessing and approving plans are properly qualified with the relevant experience?”

SHADOW MINISTER: Yep. So… I think I’ve answered that question in part I’m a very hands-on person. I’m not
a micromanager by any means but I’ve done this sort of work for a very long time.

And I think the most important thing is if I am afforded the position come Saturday that I continue to meet with groups like yourselves, that I continue to have an ongoing dialogue with families, with advocates, with providers.

And there are juts so many things that I can see in a system like this that could work, if you made the changes.

Everyone is absolutely committed to the NDIS.

It’s about making it work for everyone. And there are good stories out there. And I think we need to hear and learn from those good stories.

But it seems to me that advocacy is really important.

And it seems to me that that’s one area that’s been … made silent almost.

It seems that in answering this question we need to be thinking about the providers.

And I am determined to have a really good relationship with states and territories. There has got be a provider of last resort. People that are banked up in prisons, in hospitals, in nursing homes, is completely unacceptable.

And the consistency that – was it David?

KIRSTEN: It was Dominic.

SHADOW MINISTER: Dominic. The consistency that Dominic’s talking about and the issue of people with
complex needs. I don’t think is being understood as well as it can be.

And there are medical needs, there are needs in terms of disability. And people with complex needs need to be looked at as a whole person.

Not categorised, and say well you know, pneumonia, cerebral palsy, and those things are treated separately which requires a level of understanding and training I think with medical professionals.

I’ve heard stories, stories that doctors thinking that they’re signing papers for Disability Support Pension, not really understanding what the NDIS is.

And people with complex needs, in my view are subjected to the same rigorous conditions of people without complex needs but with needs.

So those people with complex needs it needs to be understood that they’re the people that should have rolling plans, they’re the people that should be treated with dignity just like anyone else.

It’s not about the level of need, it’s about being a human being.

KIRSTEN: So this question came up a lot, but we’ve picked the one from Dianne which is “When will the NDIS adequately fund transport?”

“So that participants can actually use their funded community access.”

SHADOW MINISTER: I cannot tell you how often I hear that from Dianne.

And I wish I had a better answer Kirsten.

It seems like there’s some sort of disconnect on this issue between state, states having responsibility and the transfer to the Commonwealth.

And I think that if a person has a plan and they have unspent money in say physiotherapy, and they need more funding for travel, why can’t they move that money around? You know, these are responsible people that are not greedy. They just want a fair go.

So that’s, there seems – I haven’t got an absolute answer but I do know that we should be able to
move money around in plans and particularly in regional and remote communities. I’ve heard the issue of travel raised time and time again and how out of pocket so many people are.

So I want to have a proper look at particularly that travel component to see if there’s a better way of assesing what the need is and funding it properly.

Which is one of the reasons that we’ve created this Future Fund.

It seems to me that Future Fund and unspent money we know we’re going to be banking that $1.6 billion dollars already if we are afforded government.

And it would appear to me that this issue of travel and pricing would fit perfectly into using some of that money.

KIRSTEN: All right again this was another common question but we have picked the one from Fiona. Why are second and subsequent plans being cut? We were building up a good program with excellent goals for the future independence of our son when his funding was cut drastically so now he can’t meet his goals. How would you make sure the NDIS was fair?

SHADOW MINISTER: I have also heard this very much and most of the people that come into my electoral office about the NDIS – this is the issue. That they were on a particular plan and then the next plan was vastly different. And I don’t understand that lack of consistency. So once again lifting the staffing cap, people being able to see their plans before they are sent off for assessment, you know getting through that terrible backlog of plans and reviews will all help in this. But the other point that is being made here is that – and it has been put to me by a few people – if people don’t expend all their money in their first year, they should not be penalised for that in the second year. And that is what I think is going on. So I think that with plans being over two or three years that will help. But the other thing of course is there needs to be, in my view, real people at the end of phone lines. So that if someone, or a family, has this issue, they shouldn’t have to go begging to get that sorted out. They certainly shouldn’t have to go to their local MP to get it sorted out. They should be able to ring a number at the NDIA and to speak to someone that has a name so there is some consistency in people they are talking to. And that’s not the case at the moment.

KIRSTEN: Alright. This question comes from Pam. While many people with disability who receive support from the NDIS won’t need any help from families and carers, many others will. We know that many families are really struggling. What would you do to make sure that they get the support they need so they can keep providing care to their family member?

SHADOW MINISTER: Well Carol Brown is certainly, has developed a major carer plan and it seems to me there needs to be a lot more focus and a lot more understanding of what carer’s needs are and I don’t believe that’s the case – (carer’s needs) are not terribly well understood within the NDIA. And I don’t think it is considered enough. I have had a lot to do with carers over the years, certainly when I was the Minister for Community Services in New South Wales foster carers were very much featured in what I did. They had no respite, no real recognition. Many people are caring unofficially – people don’t even know that they exist. We’ve got to recognise the value of carers. They are saving the government millions and millions and millions of dollars every year. And being the person in the life of someone with disability often family members and the love – the demand on carers is just enormous. Could you just go back to the question then?

KIRSTEN: Yes. So it was – what would you do to make sure that families and carers get the support they need as they are supporting their family member?

SHADOW MINISTER: Ok so I’ve got some notes on this as I think it is just so very important. The NDIS is not, we are probably not taking into account the needs of carers. So that’s the first thing. And that’s just not sustainable. We have to take account of carers. And we’re also going to boost respite for carers. I don’t think that is in our plan but that is something I have got very much in the front of my mind. And I think the culture is the thing we have to change at the NDIA. And in changing that culture, it’s backing in your workers, it’s backing in your carers, it’s making sure that people with disability and their family, often their carers, are at the centre of decisions. If this is really about choice and control, let’s give people back choice and control.

KIRSTEN: Alright, so the next question is from Robert. What would you do to create more housing for people with disability?

SHADOW MINISTER: That’s a very, very good question. And Labor has not lost sight of that. I have actually spoken with, I think it is Sunrise is it?

KIRSTEN: Summer Foundation?

SHADOW MINISTER: Yes. And in fact in the electorate of Barton they’ve got some units being developed at the moment. I don’t have a full answer to this, but I do know that with the new housing stock that Labor has promised, it’s over 200,000 new housing units, that some of those will be absolutely designed with people with disability in mind. I think that we have to support people that are developing housing, particularly community housing providers, to build suitable housing. And the other thing is that – I’m just reading here – we’ve got to construct new dwellings and also retrofit and make sure that if people’s plans do not take into account properly housing needs – and employment I’ll add in there – then those plans are not adequate. So I think part of it is about stock, and part of it is about planning to make sure that there are funds available so people can access the market if they want to do that.

KIRSTEN: So this question we have is from Sarah, but it also comes up a lot at our Make it Work forums, which is, what are you going to do to make sure that people who are not eligible for the NDIS still get the support they need?

SHADOW MINISTER: Yeah that is probably the thing that is really more disturbing than most other issues because I am so aware of so many people that are going to fall through the cracks. I’m not sure if I have spoken to you about it, but we are going to have a new National Disability Agreement. That’s the first thing. And that will be with states and territories. I just don’t think states can just say I am going to wash my hands of this, this is now a total federal responsibility. That’s just not sustainable. I think states have to retain responsibility. We are also going to also make sure that states and territories and the federal government are clear in these areas – employment, education, housing, transport, justice, health and reducing young people in nursing homes. I’ll be taking a very firm line with the states about the NDIS and about their responsibilities. I’ve even heard of some states that are no longer going to have a disability minister. And I just think that’s just not acceptable. Because not everyone is going to qualify for the NDIS. On that score I want to have a look at what the threshold is and what the issues are and what the conditions are that the NDIS will fund. I think that needs a review. I’m very determined to have people with episodic disability included, and hopefully that will pick up a lot of young people. I’m also horrified that for many people that have a clear disability but no diagnosis – whether it is a chromosomal thing – don’t qualify and that’s just not acceptable either. So it’s about looking at who and how you qualify as well as working with the states and territories.

KIRSTEN: So you touched on this one earlier but we will go back to it. This one is from David. Advocacy is essential for fair and adequate planning if clients are to gain the full benefits of the NDIS. So why is that advocacy is so poorly supported – and what would you do to address it?

SHADOW MINISTER: Because I think the present government has deliberately run down advocacy. And not just in this area, but Labor has a very, very different view. Advocacy is critical. Within the planning process that I have gone through on the NDIS we have increased I think $10 million additional money for advocacy. I am also very conscious that people trying to find their way through the planning process desperately need proper advocates. That is patently obvious and I am sure through your forums you have seen that. So I want to make sure that individual advocacy is also better resourced. And drive that cultural change once again. I know I keep coming back to it. You can’t put a dollar figure on it but you change the culture – where advocacy is important, where carers are valued, where people with disability and their families are back at the centre of the planning process, and the planning process is easier, less terrifying. There are even some people that have actually given up. Because it is just too hard. And that just can’t be. People need to feel that they are valued, that their rights are being respected and advocacy is so fundamental to all of that.

KIRSTEN: So I am going to be a little bit cheeky and pinch the final question.

SHADOW MINISTER: What a surprise!

KIRSTEN: So I wanted to ask you – where do you think the NDIS should be in about five years time? If the NDIS was successful, what would the world look like?

SHADOW MINISTER: Well the world would look very different than what it is today. We would have rooms full of people who are satisfied with their plan and can understand and deal with the planning process. We would have advocates and providers properly resourced. We would have a lot more people working in the NDIA. We would have probably – and we have not touched on it with this – probably some very different funding arrangements than we have now. And what I mean by that is, it seems to me, particularly in really thin markets like remote Aboriginal communities, individual self managed plans are just not just working. People are either not doing it or using less than 30 per cent of their plans. We would have a workforce that feels supported. A workforce that is properly resourced. We would have a Future Fund that guarantees that any money that is coming into the disability space is used in the disability space. And in five years time, this is a proper insurance scheme that is working for everybody.

KIRSTEN: That’s great, thank you very much for your time today Shadow Minister.

SHADOW MINISTER: Thank you.

KIRSTEN: We really appreciate it and for answering all the questions from our Every Australian Counts community, we are incredibly grateful. Thank you.

SHADOW MINISTER: Thank you very much. Bye!